Authors: Nancy, Joshua, Mario, Brad, Gregory Kurt
Translation: DeThings

Editor's Note: On June 25, two days before the first presidential debate of 2024 and about two weeks before an attempted assassination, Bloomberg Businessweek interviewed former U.S. President Donald Trump at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach, Florida. In a discussion focused on business and the global economy, Trump talked about the Federal Reserve, inflation, tax cuts, tariffs, Taiwan, and his relationship with the CEO. The interview was conducted by Bloomberg senior reporters Nancy Cook and Joshua Green, executive editor Mario Parker, and Businessweek editor Brad Stone. The following is the transcript of the conversation, edited for clarity and fact-checked by Gregory Kurt. It is divided into 22 questions, with this being the first part, ending at the 14th question. The continuation can be found in the next part.

1. Bloomberg Businessweek: Thank you for agreeing to our interview. First, I would like to ask a big question: from the perspective of innovation, opportunities, and global competitiveness, what kind of economy do you hope for in the United States?

Trump: I think manufacturing is a big deal, and every candidate says you're never going to do manufacturing again.

We have a currency problem, you know. Currency. When I was president, I had very tough fights with President Xi Jinping and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who is a great guy—actually, you know the story.

So we have a serious currency problem because the depth of the currency now, the strong dollar/weak yen, weak renminbi, is huge. I fought with them, you know, they always wanted the dollar to go down. They would fight, I'd say, if you devalue, I'm going to put tariffs on you. They threw everything at me, but I was very tough on it. Nobody talks about it now. And this differential is, you know, our interest rates are the highest, I think they said in 38 years. It's a big burden for our companies trying to sell tractors and other products overseas. It's a big burden.

I remember one of the hardest things I worked on was keeping their currency up. Because we never had a differential like we have now.

I think you're going to see some very bad numbers coming out soon. I've been talking to manufacturers, and they say we can't sell, nobody wants to buy our product because it's too expensive. Look at Komatsu and these tractor companies. They make great products, but you know—it forces Caterpillar and other companies to build, they have a lot of it overseas, but it forces them to build in other countries, and that's what other countries want. That's what we should want in a different way, we should want, we have to have, but I think you're going to see some very bad numbers in the next year. It's going to take a while to do it. But the differential between the dollar and the yen, the dollar and the renminbi, is really incredible. The dollar is high, and they're low. I always noticed they do everything they can to keep their currency low.

It doesn't sound good, but the way they've built Japan is that way. China is built that way. I think we're in very bad shape.

What contributions does President Biden make to the economy? Do you have any praise for him?

Trump: Listen, I'd love to. I'd love to meet with him… but I just think everything he's doing is the opposite of what should be done. I'm not against electric cars—electric cars. I think they're great. Elon "Musk, CEO of Tesla" is great. I think it's great.

I drive them often, they're great. But you can't have 100% of cars be electric. We can't electrify cities. We're so far behind in basic technology, but it's not. These cars don't go far enough. They're very, very expensive. They're also heavy. You know, they're much heavier. They want to go to electric trucks. If you do electric trucks, it's about double, because I've been in the trucking business a lot. They're two and a half times the weight of the same diesel truck. Who would have thought? You have to rebuild bridges and infrastructure, they can't handle the weight— they're much heavier than diesel or gasoline, the batteries and everything are much heavier. So, I mean, these are serious problems. You saw last week they announced they're going to spend $80 billion to put in 7 chargers. Seven. Seven chargers. Like gas pumps. They put in seven chargers. They spent $80 billion, that might be one one-hundredth or one-thousandth of what you need.

I've seen reports that say if you're going to electrify this country, this country has to go bankrupt. It takes $50 trillion to have the number of chargers you need. These things aren't complicated, but they don't even want to talk about them, you know? They say car companies—keep making cars, we don't care, they want to have 50% of the electric car market by 2030, and even far beyond that—by 2032 it's 75%. 75%. It's not feasible. It's not sustainable—by the way, they're also offering a lot of subsidies, but nobody actually knows. But you're talking trillions of dollars. We have hundreds of thousands of electric cars that we can't sell, but you don't hear car companies complaining. Usually, if a car doesn't sell, you know, that's front-page news in Businessweek. Right? But they don't sell, and the car companies are happy. The level of subsidies they're getting is unprecedented.

2. I want to ask you about the issue of inflation. Inflation has indeed politically hurt Biden. Part of the reason is the pandemic, and part of the reason is his stimulus plan. What different approach would you take?

So inflation is caused by energy. And what he did was immediately start cutting my energy. We got it down to a level—at certain times, we got it down to $1.50. It's a little artificial because we had a pandemic, we had a lot of things that changed because of the pandemic. You have the pandemic period, and then you have the rest of the time. But we got it down to $1.87. Our prices were very, very low, and they were performing well, and it wasn't in abnormal times.

When he came in, he really started cutting prices. I mean, he got rid of ANWR. Reagan wanted it. Getting ANWR was his biggest dream. Because in terms of the capacity of Alaska, ANWR could be like Saudi Arabia.

He basically ended all of that, and he did it in a very scary way. But ANWR and he basically let people know, regulations, rules, regulations, everything, so I cut more regulations than any president in history, and I got the biggest tax cut—more than any president, including the second one, Ronald Reagan. We got a huge tax cut and incentives, you know, a year of tax cuts. People, they liked it. We had it before the pandemic, and then we got back to the stock market actually at a higher level.

When I handed over the presidency, the stock market was much higher than before the pandemic, the China virus, or Covid, whatever you want to call it. There are many different names, but the stock market was 3 times higher than that difficult period, nobody knew, nobody knew anything. What's going on? I always say I did well in this regard, but I never got credit for it. I got credit for the great economy. I got credit for what we did militarily, no wars, none. Russia didn't take anything from us, but they took a lot from others. This might be a question you want to discuss later. But you know, the whole Ukraine thing is very scary—it's also caused by oil, because you know, when the price of oil goes to $100 a barrel instead of $40 a barrel, he can start a war. At $40 a barrel, no matter if he listens to my advice, he won't go to war. I don't care about the cause. Now we have a double incentive, very expensive oil. He's the only one making money during the war, because he did make money. The numbers are shocking. In large part, the war drove up prices. So, in one scenario, you want low energy prices, but in another scenario, you want to end the war, but you can't end the war at $100, because at $100, he's not very motivated to end the war. So we have a whole set of macro problems, they're also micro problems, they go down to micro problems. In the end, the result is chaos in the world. We might eventually—I have to get that hat. Tell the assistant sitting next to me, "Can you get her to bring me that new hat?" The hat says, "Trump is right."

3. Can I ask you another question while waiting for the hat? As you know, the Federal Reserve controls interest rates. If you were re-elected, would you allow Jerome Powell to serve until 2028? (Powell's term as Chair of the Federal Reserve Board is four years and will end in May 2026. His 14-year term on the Federal Reserve Board will end in January 2028.)

Yes, I would. There's a lot of misinformation about this. I had disputes with him. But no, I would, I would let him stay, especially if I think he's doing the right thing. Now, you have to keep the rates the same until the economy recovers, and then the rates will go down. Inflation is a country's scourge. It's interesting. You study inflation more than I do, but I've studied a lot of inflation. Looking back at Germany, looking at many countries, inflation will eventually destroy a country. So, you know, you can't do it. They have a dream, they want to lower rates, but they're very tough now. Now, I would have a plan to lower costs. Not necessarily rates. Costs. Because if you can lower costs, you can lower rates.

But now the rates are very high, it's difficult for them. I know they want to try to do that. Maybe they'll do it before the election, before November 5, even though they know they shouldn't.

4. Sir, do you think they should postpone the rate cut? Do you think they should wait until after the election to lower the interest rates?

Unless they cut other costs equivalent to interest, interest is a very big cost. So it's difficult. But yes, I have a plan to offset this by cutting energy. Energy. We can cut energy by a large margin. You know, I always say we have more liquid gold under our feet than anyone else. It's true. We have more liquid gold than anyone else. If we can get energy—energy is such a big cost, and interest is such a big cost. But you know, interest is a bit counterproductive because we have to pay bonds. Bonds are just, they're eating us up, interest payments. I used to say, when we have 1% or lower bonds or something, I'd say, "Can you imagine if we pay?" You know, at 1%, it kind of works.

Speaking of that, the gentleman on the cover "Trump is talking about the July 2024 cover of Businessweek, with Bernard Arnault, Chairman and CEO of LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton SE, on the cover, sitting at a nearby coffee table,"

He's a great guy, I think he's my friend, I don't know if you've asked him this question?

Trump: I haven't. But he's my friend. He's great. His son is great too. But he bought Tiffany. I said, what rate? Oh, well, they actually paid me. So he's one of the few private individuals who was able to get Tiffany, and he bought Tiffany at the price he paid. Then he renegotiated the price. But he said, well, my deal was too good. I mean, they lent me money, they actually paid me.

I'm going to get you a Coke. Are you coming in? Anyone want something to drink? Anyone? A little Coke? Coke and Diet Coke. About Diet Coke, one thing I have to say is, I've never seen a skinny person drink Diet Coke. No, it's always Diet Coke. I say that in a friendly way. But people drink Diet Coke, I've never seen a skinny person drink it. I've never seen it. These people come in and order regular Coke, and they're very thin. I don't know what's going on? So go ahead.

5. If you were re-elected, what would you do to prompt the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates faster?

Well, you have to lower other costs, you can't suffer from inflation. Inflation, it really, really, really… (An assistant brings a red MAGA hat) This is just, someone just sent it.

Question: Are you going to wear that?

Let me just say, someone just gave it to me. Did you see that, Jason (Senior Advisor Miller)? So I have to start wearing it. But you can do other things with rates. One of the things happening now is that the millions of immigrants pouring into the country are causing huge losses for the country, and there's so much more. This is a new phenomenon. I would say, you know, some people say it's 16 or 17 million, some say it's 9 or 10 million. 9 or 10 million is very different from 16 or 17 million. It could be more, it could be over 17 million. It could be 20 million, but by the time this figure, the worst president in our country's history took office, that figure will definitely reach 20 million. He's destroying our country. By the time he leaves, I hope he leaves. If he doesn't leave, I think you can shut down Businessweek, because I think it's worthless. I think the whole country will go to hell. You know, there's a theory that because we're doing well in the polls, the market goes up.

Scott (CEO of Key Square Capital Management LLC), they say the only reason the market is doing well is because I'm doing well in the polls and I'm going to be president. But a lot of people think that, including some of the best, most optimistic people, but still. I think the rates are very low now.

Getting funds is very difficult, you know, when our mortgage rates were at 2.6%, people bought a lot of houses. Now it's actually 9 or 10. But actually, that figure should be much higher than that, because you can't get money. So if you can't get money, that figure will be higher than 9 or 10. That figure is very high—9 or 10. There's a big difference, because people are just—this is the so-called American dream. They want to be able to buy a house. But they can't afford a house.

6. President Biden has retained many of the tariffs you imposed on China. He has pushed for American-made steel and invested billions in rebuilding American manufacturing and energy. Do you plan to repeal the entire "Inflation Reduction Act," or just certain parts of it?

First of all, he proposed the "Inflation Reduction Act," which is not the right name. It increases inflation, not reduces it. They actually admit, after they got the money, they shouldn't have gotten that money. I wasn't there at the time. They shouldn't have gotten that money, they didn't need that money. We need the money I originally got, otherwise we wouldn't have a country. We would have a depression like we've never seen except in 1929. It couldn't be worse than that. But if you don't do that, then the "Inflation Reduction Act"—they named it that to get it passed. Then after they got the money, I think they actually renamed it, but it has nothing to do with reducing inflation. It has more to do with the Green New Scam, and that's its real meaning.

No, we need to get back to the basics now. We need low-cost energy. Our advantage over almost every country (including very large countries) is that we have more energy than anyone else. We have more real energy, usable energy. Wind power doesn't work. It's too expensive. If you look at a kilowatt-hour, you can measure it in different ways, you can measure it in any different way, but you look at the cost of wind power compared to the cost of natural gas, natural gas is clean, we have so much—it escapes into the air. But if you look at the cost of wind power, it's too expensive. You look at the cost of solar power. You look at some solar, I believe in solar, but it takes up too much space. It's completely unstable, you know, it can only be used in certain areas with abundant, bright, and continuous sunlight. I've seen a very large solar area. It's several miles high, you know, they talk about the environment. This thing is several square miles, very large.

You say, is this a good thing?

Do you know what windmills are? I think they're very harmful. People think they're green in terms of energy, and that always surprises me. They like wind, I think they like wind because it sounds good. But I've seen windmills—you go to California and other places, where windmills have been running for a while. They don't last very long. You know, people forget, you have to keep rebuilding them. It's not like you have it and it's good. They last eight or nine years. And windmills in the ocean are especially eroded by seawater. They keep replacing them, you know, when they take them down, they repair them. The blades are made of carbon material, and they say from an environmental standpoint, they can't bury them. They don't know what to do with these blades. But you look at some places in California, they've had these things installed for a while, and then they put the new ones next to the old ones, different colors and shapes, it looks absolutely like a junkyard. It's terrible, if you're facing windmills or near windmills, your house is worth much less than it should be. But it's very unstable. We have to get back to basics, we have to get back to square one, you know, Germany tried this. Germany has tried this in the past, and now they're building hundreds of coal-fired power plants, I think they're still building nuclear power.

7. So, Mr. President, will you repeal the law? Ironically, some of the funds flow to red states.

You mean, dismantle some completed things? Like wind?

In the Inflation Reduction Act.

The problem with wind power is that it requires a lot of subsidies. When I was president, sitting next to me was a big shot. We have 40 of the biggest businessmen in Europe. The gentleman next to me, his sole responsibility is energy and things like windmills. He said, "No, we want out of the windmill business." I'll never forget. He said, "I want out of the windmill business because they need subsidies. They can't be built without subsidies." You see, if you look at New Jersey, they were planning to build windmills, on a massive scale, they kept offering more and more subsidies, but in the end they didn't build them. The whole project was canceled, it was a big deal, and it made the people of New Jersey very happy. It was a joint effort. But wind power is incredibly expensive. It needs subsidies. This gentleman said, "I never want to be involved in any form of energy that requires subsidies." He said wind power requires a lot of subsidies.

8. Back to China, economists say that imposing about 60% tariffs on China will completely end the US-China trade relationship. What does this mean for companies like Nvidia, Qualcomm, Apple, and others that have supply chains in China?

You know, my tariff rate at the time was 50%, I've never heard of a 60% tariff rate. Everyone says, look at the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, oh, look at what happened. The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act was enacted after the Great Depression began. So if you go back, I tell you to read William McKinley. William McKinley made this country rich. He's the most underrated president. His successor took the money. Roosevelt took the money, built parks and dams. But McKinley made money, he really was the king of tariffs. I'm not saying this based on my knowledge of him, although I learned about him afterwards.

Tariffs have two functions. Economically, tariffs are amazing. Many people would say, oh, this is too bad. When you say that, it's very dangerous, because you might have your own views, and there are many. I can't believe there are so many people against tariffs who are actually smart people. There are two benefits: economically, it's great. And it's also good for negotiations. I've met some countries that might be very hostile to me, and they come to me and say, "Sir, please stop imposing tariffs. Stop." They'll do anything. It's not about the economy, they'll do—you know, we have other things besides the economy, like let's not go to war. Or I don't want you to go to war elsewhere.

9. Mario mentioned those companies, those big American companies that support our competitiveness and artificial intelligence, will you grant them tariff relief, like you did with Apple?

Yes, I've worked with Apple.

Let me tell you: Tim Cook, I found him to be a very excellent businessman. Others would hire people, they would pay them millions of dollars, and lobbyists and so on to talk to me. Tim Cook, I don't know much about him. He would call me, you know he's the chairman of Apple, "Can I come in to see you?" He's the chairman of Apple. I think that's very impressive. He came in—at least I don't know what it is now, but it's the biggest company. I said, "Yes, come in." He said to me, "I need help," your products have tariffs of 25% and 50%, depending on the category. He said, "This is really hurting our business. It could destroy our business." I said, "Why?" Because if you build a factory here, you don't have to pay taxes. You see, that's the third thing it does, it attracts people to build factories here. I can tell you, I could talk about this all day. What we're doing is too stupid. You know, I have no problem with China. I have no problem with Russia. I have no problem with anyone. Because we, now, are a country with strong economic power. We are rapidly losing that power. Rapidly. We're also losing our standards—you know, they're breaking away from the dollar. Look, Iran has already left, Russia has already left, and Saudi Arabia now says they want to go with China and us.

10. Will you defend Taiwan against Chinese aggression?

Look, there are a few things. First, Taiwan. I know them very well, I have a lot of respect for them. They did take away about 100% of our chip business. I think Taiwan should pay for our defense. You know, we're no different from an insurance company. Taiwan hasn't given us anything. Taiwan is 9,500 miles away from us. It's 68 miles from China. That's a small advantage, China has a vast land area, they can bomb it. They don't even need—I mean, they can just shoot shells. Now they don't want to do that, because they don't want to lose all those chip factories. You know, all those factories, they don't want to do that. But I'll tell you, that's Xi Jinping's jewel in the crown, before the pandemic, he was my good friend, but I really, you know, I, I don't have the same feeling. Putin is the same.

I get along with Putin, we have a good relationship. We've never been in danger of war. He'll never go into Ukraine. I said, never go into Ukraine.

The price of oil. It's crazy. The price of oil is crazy, it's been his jewel in the crown. Just like dealing with China. It's China's jewel in the crown. It's the jewel in the crown. It's his jewel in the crown. But the day I left, they sent 28 bombers straight to the top two, and since then they've been very aggressive, their ships are everywhere. If I were them, I wouldn't feel so safe now, but remember: Taiwan took away our chip business, I mean, how stupid are we? They took away all of our chip business. They're very wealthy. I think we're no different from an insurance policy. Why? Why are we doing this?

11. When we talk about the war between Russia and Ukraine…

(Interrupt) I just think we have to be a little smarter, but remember, 9,500 miles away. You have to load up the planes twice to get them over here, and when they get here, they have to leave. But it's a very, very difficult thing. The problem is, in the three and a half years, China has allied with Russia, Iran, and North Korea. North Korea has a lot of nuclear weapons. I can tell you. I think that's not a secret. They have a lot. The world is different from three and a half years ago. Three and a half years ago, we, you know, the worst things were allowed because Biden is a stupid person. He forced Russia and China to get married. They got married. Then they took in their little cousin Iran, and then they took in North Korea. They don't need anyone else. They don't need anyone else.

It's a very, very dangerous world. I'm actually very worried about the remaining five months. Yes, I think you might end up in World War III. This person is extremely incompetent, his people are fascists, but they don't know what they're doing, so remember: I have no war, no peace, no problem. We have no war. Except for ISIS, there's no other war. I wiped them out in a very short time. Someone told me it would take five years, I hardly took any time, we wiped them out. We got (Islamic State commander Qasem) Soleimani, we got (Islamic State leader Abu Bakr) al-Baghdadi, Russia didn't occupy any land. You know, it's an interesting fact. They say, Obama and Bush did it, they can trace it back even further. Every president gave a huge return, which means they could take away, and I didn't take anything.

Now people will write: Oh, Trump, Trump. But that's the fact. You know, it's interesting. I'm saying this with a smile, we did very well. Don't praise me for it, but it's okay, we did very well. All the other presidents were enjoying the world's pleasures. In my time, no one enjoyed the world's pleasures. Iran went bankrupt. You wouldn't have Israel. Iran has no money. Their funds are down to 300 million dollars. I think they're down to less than 300 million dollars. If the election hadn't been rigged, they should have reached an agreement within a week, and I would have reached an agreement, the basic agreement is not to have nuclear weapons. I would have reached a great agreement with them—no nuclear weapons.

But when I took office, I saw what was happening, they were on the path to nuclear weapons. I ended the Iran nuclear deal, which was very important, because it was the stupidest deal. The problem is Biden did nothing. I ended it. He did nothing. But we should have reached an agreement. So they went bankrupt. They have no money for Hamas. They also have no money for Hezbollah or any of their so-called 28 terrorist organizations.

They're all starving. When I left, there were rumors that I hadn't encountered a terrorist attack in four years. I can't talk about it. Because I don't want to say there were no attacks, and then there were attacks, right? That's not good. But during my tenure, we didn't have any terrorist attacks.

They took away almost 100% of our chip industry, I commend them. That's because stupid people are running this country. We shouldn't let this happen. Now we're giving them billions of dollars to manufacture new chips in my country, and then they'll take that money too, in other words, they'll manufacture it and take it back to their country.

12. Regarding Russia, as a businessman, you have talked about ending the war in Ukraine. Have you considered relaxing or lifting sanctions on Russia as part of an agreement to end the war in Ukraine?

Yes. So we impose sanctions to force everyone away from us. So I don't like sanctions. I found sanctions to be useful against Iran, but I didn't even need to impose sanctions on Iran. I told China, Russia's situation is similar. I told China… I made people aware, I don't think China is a bad guy. But I made people aware that for 30 years, under the leadership of successive presidents, China has been plundering this country, and I'm the only one who has made huge amounts of money, billions of dollars, from China.

To the extent that even Biden, who was bought by China, couldn't lift the tariffs, because the inflow of funds was just too much. And that's just the beginning. That's just the beginning. But I told people, China is hurting us. China is building its military with the money they took from America, right. So, I think Gordon Chang (conservative commentator and China hawk) said a few days ago, Trump is the only one who understands China, and he said a few interesting things. He said, when he started imposing tariffs, this huge amount of money was cut, you know, we made a huge amount of money. I gave farmers 28 billion dollars. They got 28 billion dollars, because China was using our farmers. I gave them the money. So I won Iowa and other places.

13. You recently promised to reduce the corporate tax rate from 21% to 20% at a meeting with the Business Roundtable CEO. Only a one percentage point reduction, is it because…

(Interrupt) Because I like simplicity. I prefer 20%. I prefer 15%, but I think that would be very difficult.

Well, my question is: Is this the limit? Is 20% the maximum tax reduction you support? Or as president, would you push for larger tax cuts?

A 15% tax rate would bring us to the lowest level. You see, when I implemented tax cuts, this place started to thrive. You know better than me, we make much more revenue with lower tax rates than with much higher tax rates. Nobody believes it. Everyone thinks, oh, well. It's not like that. You know, we used to have a system where you could bring money back from overseas. Nobody could bring money back. You had to hire 15 different accounting firms to bring the money back, it was too complicated. And the tax rate was too high.

They wouldn't give up half the money to bring it back. For example, Apple brought back billions of dollars to the United States, and then they started building. I said, "I'll do something for you, but you have to build in this country." I want them to build here. That's another function of tariffs. If you impose tariffs on companies, they will build factories here, because they don't want to pay tariffs. You know, something bad is happening. Mexico is doing something very bad. China is building large car factories. They will make UAW unemployed. They're building in Mexico, producing cars for the United States, what do we get out of it?

If they build here, but our people are too stupid, in my time, this wouldn't have happened, you know why? Why I stopped all this, they all moved to Mexico. They're building in Mexico, not paying taxes, and selling in the United States. If I didn't stop all this, you wouldn't even have the car industry.

Well, since we're talking about CEOs, "JPMorgan Chase CEO" Jamie Dimon's name has been floated as a potential candidate for Trump's second-term Treasury Secretary, is he a candidate you're considering?

First, I'll say one thing, I had a meeting with them. First, I had a meeting with Congress, Republican Congress. It was like a love feast, and then I met with them, and then I met with the U.S. Senate, all Republicans, 49 people. It was also a love feast, but my best three meetings were with the executives. Biden's fake news people brought up one thing: oh, he kept talking, he kept talking. There was no talking. You could say it's gibberish, but to get to the point, you have to, you know, it's a very complex topic, most people, most people don't understand. But I just want to say, that was the best meeting. They liked it. They were very satisfied. I mean, for example, I lowered the tax rate from 39% to 21%. What's not to like? Then I said, for simplicity's sake, I want to round it down to 20, I mean, believe it or not, it still makes sense, and it's still a lot of money.

But if I could, I'd like to bring it down to 15, because then our incentive would be at an absolute minimum. But that meeting, we had 70 people, all CEOs, top executives, it was a love feast, I'll tell you when I'm not loved, because I feel better than anyone. But it was a love feast. Some people reported it, that's not right. In fact, CNBC called to apologize to me, because they found out about it. But our meeting was very pleasant, Jamie Dimon was also there. I have great respect for Jamie Dimon.

The highest corporate marginal tax rate in 2018 was 35%.

Future Treasury Secretary Trump?

I would definitely consider him. He attended the meeting. Tim Cook was sitting right next to him. You know, all of us were there.

14. Did they give you any special advice or requests at that meeting?

No, no, the only reason is, for some reason, the word "tariff," I usually use the word "tax," because the word "tariff" is a very complex word for some people. Let me tell you about William McKinley. William McKinley was assassinated. You may know, they named McKinley Mountain after him. Then they took that name off—it's not very nice, because he made this country so wealthy. All he did was tariffs, we didn't have income tax. I think it was the 1887 or 1886 Tariff Act… you have to correct me, you know, whether it's 1887 or 1886. They held a grand seminar, gathering all the business leaders.

The only topic was how we handle all the money? If you look at these statements, Steve (Trump is talking to advisor Stephen Miller present), if you can find some, I'll start using them in my speeches. But first, the debate has to be considered. But he said, we will not allow other countries to steal our wealth, to steal our jobs. If they want to come here, they can. We will welcome them with open arms, but they must pay the price for the privilege of stealing our jobs and wealth. He made them pay the price, all that money accumulated, and Roosevelt spent it all. And Roosevelt got all the credit. I know how it works.

That was the 1890 Tariff Act. McKinley was Speaker of the House in 1890. The Democrats lowered these tariffs in 1894, but McKinley basically restored them during his presidency in 1897.

But most CEOs are not in favor of tariffs.

It's amazing. You know why? Because they don't want to build factories in America. They have factories in different countries. You see, China has been brilliant for many years. It took many years, but over the years, China made stupid Americans build factories in China.

They did this by charging huge tariffs of 100%, 150-200%. Other countries did the same. Let me tell you a story: when I was at Harley-Davidson, I said, "How are you doing?" They were at the White House. I said, "Is it difficult to do business in some places?" I said, "You mean like India?" India is an amazing abuser. One of the best. One of the best.

Smart.

I said, "Why? Let me guess: India charges you tariffs, right?" "Yes, sir—200%." Because they said—how many motorcycles do you sell in India? He said, basically none. I said, "Oh, I see, they charge you tariffs, right? What's your tariff? 200%. Oh, I see. I guess they want you to build a big factory in India so you don't have to pay tariffs?" "How did you know, sir?" I said, because I arranged it. They eventually built this big factory in India." They produce motorcycles all over. They eventually closed Milwaukee, you know, they closed a lot of factories. I'm not sure if they closed a lot, all of them. I said, isn't that a shame? That's too stupid. Do you understand? They charged huge tariffs. I can't make people understand this. We have a stupid senator from Pennsylvania, Pat Toomey, he's a very stupid person. He said, "So let me ask you." He left because I wouldn't give him support, because if I don't give them support, they can't win, you know? Have you seen it?

Now even Bob Good has left. I mean, he was leading by 30 points. I supported someone no one had heard of, and he won the race. But in the end, everything became incredible. You impose tariffs, now they're all coming back to build in America. It's easy. But all they did was get rich by charging huge tariffs, and America went to build in China. Now, they don't like tariffs, because they've already built there.

Hello, Mr. Lembcke. (Trump turns to club manager Bernd Lembcke passing through the room) Mr. Lembcke, these are people from Bloomberg Businessweek.

He's been with me for over 20 years.

Lembcke: Very successful, he says, about income, and then most importantly, profit.

Trump: This is a great club. You have two things. You have the best house and the best location, and we have the best manager, right?

Lembcke: Yes, we've been together for over 28 years.

The following is a conversation between Lembcke and Trump:

• TRUMP: He's been the manager for 28 years, hard to believe, I opened this club…

• LEMBCKE: Two years from now, the club will celebrate its 30th anniversary, and Mar-a-Lago will celebrate its 100th anniversary. We have to celebrate next year.

• TRUMP: When I started, the membership fee was $25,000. How much are they asking to join now?

• LEMBCKE: $700,000.

• TRUMP: What will it go up to on October 1st? Or something else.

• LEMBCKE: In October, we will raise it to $1 million [per member], because we have four memberships to sell, so we're not in a hurry to sell.

• TRUMP: But we have to talk big. It's good now, but we have to think big. Thank you, Bernd. Thank you.

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