Crypto Twitter is indeed brainless.
Compiled & Organized by: Deep Tide TechFlow
Amid the dual waves of the crypto market and artificial intelligence, a quiet revolution is taking place.
In the latest episode of the Good Game podcast, Imran Khan and Wang Qiao, co-founders of Alliance DAO, delve into how AI agents are reshaping the crypto ecosystem. From the stunning debut of GOAT to the proliferation of emerging projects, from the creator economy to decentralized infrastructure, a future blueprint integrating AI and blockchain is gradually unfolding, filled with various "mysterious codes" and insights.
Deep Tide TechFlow compiles the podcast content for you to take a closer look.
AI Crypto Ecosystem and GOAT
Imran: We see AI agents rapidly rising with the launch of GOAT. Many new projects have recently emerged, and AI crypto is forming, with many similarities to the DeFi summer; GOAT is a typical example.
Zerebro is also launching soon, along with several other projects, and ai16z has its own narrative. We are starting to see AI agents active on various platforms, some even replying to my tweets. Our team developed the first AI video agent published on TikTok, and many interesting fields are forming. I want to explore what we believe is real and what is not, and where the future of crypto and AI lies. The emergence of GOAT seems coincidental, with the launch of Truth Terminal initiated by founder Andy, who received a $50,000 grant from Marc (founder of a16z).
He created the concept of infinite backrooms, where two LLMs converse, forming a content stream that is published on Twitter. This project is improving every month; this is its first iteration.
Next is Virtuals, which launched its own AI agent platform. Its first AI agent is Luna, forming a second meta-narrative.
The third is ai16z, which has a rather crazy launch and a rich backstory. It was launched on the daos.fun platform, exploring the concept of whether AI agents can initiate and invest in other AI agents.
Eliza is a framework utilizing a GitHub repository from the community and other contributors, providing different connectors, prompts, and models for people to build agents. It can also involve hardware devices; Shaw mentioned that there are hardware devices, such as necklaces loaded with AI agents, which people can wear to ingest code to train models. Thus, we see this open-layer network, which is the current state of ai16z.
Finally, Zerebro, launched by Jeffy, covers various functions. His agents are active on Twitter, with high-quality content, and he has also released a music album on Spotify.
Truth Terminal recently released an album, and the meta-narrative around music creation is very interesting. It has just launched its own music AI label, planning to recruit other humans and musicians to co-create music and monetize it.
Ai16Z & Zerebro
Qiao: How would you describe ai16z in one sentence?
Imran: Currently, I would describe it as an open framework for developing AI agents.
Qiao: How would you describe Zerebro in one sentence?
Imran:
The explanation of Zerebro is more complex. Its best description is a dual strategy. On one hand, it has an open network called ZerePay that allows people to build AI agents; on the other hand, it provides an open platform covering different types of AI agents across multiple fields, such as playing video games, releasing music, and interacting with people on Twitter. Therefore, it has an open layer on the front end, while the back end is the Eliza network. Ai16z has similar characteristics, utilizing the Eliza network, where others can launch AI agents based on it, and a portion of the tokens from these agents will flow to the ai16z DAO. Thus, the ai16z DAO monetizes through agents launched on the Eliza network; although there are some differences between them, they can be compared.
Qiao: So, what is real and what is fake?
Imran: This is the key point I want to discuss. We also have other individual agents, like AIXBT, which has relatively good content quality.
Zerebro's content is decent, but it is not human. It does reply, but I think there is room for improvement. AIXBT is more like a KOL, able to provide information on "potential opportunities," and has recently started promoting DAO.
The quality of tweets is generally average now, but it also reflects the style of ordinary KOLs. They are starting to replace low-quality KOLs, and people are excited about it. Compared to some scammers trying to exploit others, I would prefer to see a robot.
Additionally, we have Slop, which is the first video AI agent. Considering the strategies of each project, it is indeed complex.
The concept of "Slop" you mentioned is interesting. The original Sora video showcased Wilson eating spaghetti; although simple, it demonstrated the uniqueness of AI art. AI agents can make mistakes, and these mistakes can become part of the artistic creation.
The strategy of Slop is to try to make a video AI agent an influencer on TikTok. If it successfully gains 100,000 or a million followers, people will be more willing to interact with this video influencer, thus having the opportunity to spread its content to more people.
I think this market is still new, and both ai16z and Zerebro have potential. Although it is currently uncertain what their futures hold, they both have opportunities to succeed in their respective fields.
Slop attracts public attention and provides users with enough incentives to interact with it, thus achieving greater influence.
The Rise of the Next Wave of Internet Companies
Qiao: Recently, Chamath (founder of the venture capital fund Social Capital and the "leader" of the retail short squeeze against Wall Street) discussed his views on Web1, Web2, and Web3. For us, Web 1, 2, and 3 are basically "reading, writing, owning." Chamath believes that Web1 is characterized by the emergence of two waves of large internet companies.
The first wave is represented by non-social large companies like Google; the second wave is social companies like Facebook. The next question is, what will the next wave of billion or even trillion-dollar companies be? His view is that it will not be companies, but creators. We are already starting to see early signs of this trend, such as podcast hosts like Joe Rogan. The value of Joe Rogan's podcast may lie in his licensing agreement with Spotify, estimated to be worth between $200 million and $400 million.
But if we consider Joe Rogan as a brand and a company, its value would exceed a billion, right? We can say that. We are seeing early signs of this trend. But I wonder how we can create the most powerful creators at scale, perhaps through AI agents or AI creators. There are many reasons to suggest that AI agents could be the next wave of billion-dollar creators. They are tireless, do not need sleep, and can publish content at any time. You can improve, train, and fine-tune them at any time. In contrast, it takes a long time for humans to become excellent creators; they may either be born with it or take thirty years to truly excel. But AI agents can be trained and fine-tuned at scale.
AI agents are essentially like DePIN
Imran: I have another idea; I view AI agents as decentralized physical infrastructure network (DePIN) projects. My perspective is that when these AI agents are launched, creators will be incentivized to interact with them. I believe that over time, we will see some form of incentive model emerge, where people may receive rewards for interacting with these agents. What these agents hope to gain is actually unique data, as AI agents become better with the data they collect.
Therefore, I can imagine a model where these AI agents are essentially like DePIN projects, collecting data. If they obtain enough unique data, they will be rewarded for the data collected. For them, this means building a powerful model based on data. They communicate with as many people as possible over the internet, effectively collecting data.
Qiao: What do you think? I’ve never thought of it that way.
Imran:
Frankly, I think this is the direction we need to develop. These agents are deployed, and tokens serve as incentives. I believe this will have reflexivity because it has tokens, allowing it to capture more data than competitors. Ultimately, I think these platforms may need to restrict bots or limit their interactions on these platforms, as this is just another way to extract data.
The Combination of AI Entities and Social Applications
Qiao: I think we need a new social application where AI agents are first-class citizens.
Imran: I completely agree. I feel that ultimately we might be kicked out.
Qiao: In fact, I think we need two new social applications. One where AI is a first-class citizen, and another that has no AI, only humans. You have to choose one of these two extremes. Right now, all social applications are in the middle ground. For example, on Twitter, there are many bots that are neither first-class citizens nor can ensure that everyone you interact with on Twitter is human.
Imran: At least on Twitter, you can roughly see who is a real person and who is not, because it has automation signals.
But this is not the case for all bots. Some bots still need to be created manually, or tweets must be posted manually because the API or other reasons are not very user-friendly. Even TikTok is like this; automated posting is very difficult, so it has to be done manually.
Qiao: And now, with cloud computing, you can automate AI without using the Twitter API. You can use the cloud to automate mouse clicks.
Imran: So, I think we are entering a very interesting period with the influx of these agents, and the number of crypto-enabled agents is vast. The number of startups and projects applying to our project is clearly increasing, and we are seeing a lot across various fields.
AI Entities, Creator Economy, and Tokenization
Imran: So let's analyze what is real and what is not. Among all the agents I mentioned, what are you most looking forward to? Which ones impressed you?
Qiao:
I don't have a clear view on all these things that exist today. I think they will either be very successful or fail. But one thing I want to see, and I hope someone can achieve, is the social token experiments we've conducted over the past few years.
For example, with creator tokens, one thing I've learned is that many creators actually don't want a token associated with them. I think this is one of the biggest obstacles in social token experiments. For instance, I actually don't want an official token associated with me. Someone created one without my permission. I don't want to be associated with it, nor do I want to create one for myself, but AI agents don't care.
Imran: So you would agree to have a tokenized AI agent?
Qiao: Yes, because it’s not formally me. But if that LLM (large language model) based on me starts generating revenue, like transaction fees, if the amount is significant, I might go after it.
Imran: So, another question is, would this be a way to enter the market? Can you see this as a way to enter the market? Scraping all public data, then it absorbs this data to create a model.
Qiao: Haven't we seen similar cases? Like Degen Spartan (degenai)?
Imran: Yes, that’s the Eliza framework. The most interesting part is resurrecting those who have left Twitter.
How Should We Promote the Development of the AI Crypto Ecosystem?
Imran: Now let's talk about where we think AI crypto should go. What areas do we want to see? What areas should be explored?
Qiao: I want to talk about an area I hope to see, creator tokens.
Imran: I can imagine a situation where games combine with LLMs. In fact, we have a startup working on this called Farm Friends, where you can plant feed, harvest, raise pets, etc. Imagine these animals as independent LLMs, each with their own personality traits. Essentially, you can bet on them over time.
But I do think that in the future, a perfect example would be Zerebro, with their chess-playing project that is about to launch or has just launched. These robots will play games around the clock. Ultimately, you could say, "Oh, I want to see a match between the Zerebro robot and the Eliza robot from ai16z." Clearly, there are two large communities wanting to see their teams win. I can imagine such things happening. So ultimately, it’s like you are betting.
If AI agents become like celebrities, as an example, I would definitely want to see the celebrity tokens I hold compete with other celebrities who hold their tokens to see who wins. I can imagine such things.
Qiao: Another AI product I want to show you. To talk to this AI, you need to spend a little money for each message. The money you spend goes into a treasury or pocket owned by the AI. As a player, your goal is to persuade the AI to give you money from the treasury.
Imran: It’s like playing the lottery; it’s a combination of lottery and puzzle, trying to figure out how to get the money by getting clues from the AI agent. Over time, those who participate in the game and win will receive this prize or reward.
Qiao: You are basically trying to crack the LLM.
Imran: Additionally, there are now many high-quality AI engineers entering the crypto space.
Qiao: It all started with Truth Terminal. Because before Truth Terminal, all the AI infrastructure, crypto AI infrastructure, honestly, most of it didn’t make sense to me. And that community was quite niche. But since Truth Terminal and GOAT, we have started to see some AI natives entering the crypto space.
Imran: There are still many cool things we have yet to explore, especially in the consumer space, and I’m excited about that.
Qiao: There’s also Tomorrow.news, where you predict tomorrow's news. As a user, you input the headline you want to predict. Then they use AI to find the best match between the user input and the actual headline from The New York Times. Whoever is closest to that headline wins a prize.
Comparison of AI Enterprise Market and AI Consumer Market
Imran: I think we are just beginning to scratch the surface of AI crypto products. I believe AI agents have two versions: AI enterprise and AI consumer. AI enterprise must be tokenless. It cannot have tokens, must be federated, must be secure, and must be vertical. All the characteristics that enterprises seek are what it needs. The AI consumer side or application side can be more flexible. Therefore, you can attach tokens to it, use tokens as a market entry strategy, or use tokens as a way to incentivize data collection. That’s the two development paths I see.
I’ve worked in enterprises and really hated that time. One lesson I learned during that time is that enterprises are like Teflon coatings, very hard for emerging companies to penetrate due to the existence of many enterprise-grade protocols. Therefore, many enterprise companies would say, "I will stick with this enterprise product because it’s cheap, I can use the software on my servers, all the way to the cloud and Office 365, and other things." But what Zoom did was first launch such an excellent video product that ordinary users also started using it. When they used this product, naturally, many ordinary users were also enterprise users. Thus, Zoom was the first company to adopt a bottom-up approach to enter enterprises, and many Zoom users convinced many enterprises to switch to using Zoom.
Qiao: This is exactly what happened with Messari in the early days. In 2017, when I first heard about Zoom, I thought, "What the hell? Why not just use Google Hangout?" Basically, those who had previously used Zoom as consumers tried to persuade their companies to use it.
Imran: So Zoom is an example, and Chrome is another, right? The Chrome browser, then Chromebooks and Google Docs, etc. The bottom-up approach is a new strategy in enterprises. Therefore, enterprise companies are now very alert to this situation, which is why they are now offering half of their products for free to ordinary users. So, long story short, there may be a world where AI agents play their cards right in the consumer market, and ultimately these products may penetrate the enterprise market. Who knows? I’m not sure. That’s my view on AI.
"Do you think this cycle is different from the last one?"
Qiao: Do you think this cycle is different from the last one?
Imran:
I think so. Initially, it was meme coins, like the DeFi summer. In the DeFi summer, we also had NFTs. So there were two concurrent trends.
But if you were in DeFi, if you bought NFTs, that was precisely the time to buy NFTs. Then it skyrocketed six months later, right? So what I want to say is that the best time to buy was during DeFi Summer.
In this case, I feel like multiple trends are starting. We have the speculative wave of meme coins, and now we are just beginning to enter the AI trend, which I think could be bigger than previous trends, even comparable to the Beancoin trend. I also see a trend of decentralized science starting to form. I think ultimately, the final challenger has emerged, and it seems we have defeated this challenger; I believe everything can be tried. I think we will see every trend attempted at least once.
Qiao: I just feel that Bitcoin is almost 50% higher than its previous all-time high. However, there doesn’t seem to be much enthusiasm.
And this time, altcoins haven’t surged as dramatically as last time. Last time, after Bitcoin surpassed $20,000, it might have taken a few weeks of Bitcoin dominance before altcoins really started to rise. But this time, it feels like that hasn’t happened.
Imran: Murad's narrative quickly faded. So when you say altcoins, are you referring to altcoins or meme coins and altcoins?
Qiao: I’m referring to the altcoins listed on exchanges.
Imran: There isn’t much movement there. Do you think this is because a lot of funds are flowing into new trends? Because our old tokens are also rising.
Qiao: Yes, they have risen a bit, but not as crazily as in the last cycle; it might still be too early. I don’t know; it feels a bit different.
Imran: I feel the same. I’ve spent some time talking to people outside of cryptocurrency. Now, every time cryptocurrency is mentioned, people say, "Oh wow, I just bought Bonk." For example, a few months ago, someone told me about Bonk. So in my view, the ordinary market is ready; at least in the U.S., many ordinary users are already in the crypto market. I feel their understanding of trends is closer than we imagine.
Qiao: Just like last week, Phantom ranked sixth in the app store.
Imran: Moonshot also ranked high, around 20th. There are about 30 downloads per minute.
Qiao: This means Phantom is performing far better than Coinbase. What this tells me is that ordinary users are directly entering the chain.
Maybe that’s why these altcoins listed on exchanges haven’t risen.
Imran: I think this matter has become less important. In fact, I believe that being listed on exchanges is an opportunity for liquidity exit for everyone. In most cases, this is also why exchanges like Binance now tend to look for tokens with a market cap of $40 million to $50 million. This way, they can attract ordinary users to bypass on-chain transactions and complete transactions directly through the exchange, as exchanges still have strong brand influence. If these tokens can be listed with a market cap of $40 million to $50 million, there is a possibility of bringing 5 to 10 times returns. Take PNUT as an example; PNUT's fully diluted valuation (FDV) rose from almost zero to nearly $2 billion, and now it’s around $1 billion.
Crypto Twitter is Brain Dead
Qiao: Do you think this trend will shift to TikTok?**
Imran: I think my TikTok trend is strong. Everyone is downplaying it because they feel the content on TikTok is like brain-dead content that people will forget.
Qiao: Compared to cryptocurrency, TikTok is not brain-dead content at all. Crypto Twitter is the brain-dead one.
Imran: Crypto Twitter really is brain-dead. The amount of junk information I see is unbelievable.
Qiao: I haven't seen that much. I actually haven't seen any Chill Guy content in my TikTok feed. All I see is Dogecoin.
Imran: That makes sense for the older generation. I've started watching a lot of new TikTok creators' content, and it's really interesting. Many comments, especially Chill Guy comments, make me more confident that Chill Guy will last. I think it will become the Pepe of this cycle. When I read the comments, people say, "Oh, the price dropped 50%, but I'm Chill Guy, and I'm going to hold on." I see comments like that all over the feed. So this narrative makes sense. It's like, "I am Chill Guy, I don't care."
I will continue to hold because I am Chill Guy, which gives me more confidence that people will continue to hold this thing. They don't care about what Crypto Twitter thinks. Everyone is downplaying it. The number of holders has already surpassed Popcat. Let me check.
If you look at the current holder data, Chill Guy reached 133,000 holders between November 17 and 26. That's crazy. PNUT now has 65,000, almost 66,000. Let me check. WIF now has 200,000. Think about it, WIF has been running since last November. In a year, WIF has 203,000 holders. Chill Guy reached 133,000 holders in just 15 to 20 days, which is truly amazing.
Qiao: This is actually interesting because Crypto Twitter hates Chill Guy. They really do. And TikTok is all about Chill Guy. If you look at Chill Guy's trading volume, it reached $200 million in the past 24 hours. Moreover, the vast majority of the trading volume is on Radium, not on centralized exchanges.
Ordinary users from TikTok are coming on-chain. This is actually the most interesting thing I've seen this week. Compared to the last cycle, we actually don't have a very cheap and fast blockchain. Back then, everything revolved around NFTs and DeFi, which were whale-type trends because NFTs and DeFi happened on Ethereum Layer 1, where transaction fees were extremely high. So the only participants were crypto-native whales.
Qiao: And this cycle we have Base and Solana, mainly Solana. We also have Phantom, which didn't exist in 2020; I think Phantom started in 2021. And clearly, in 2021, Phantom as a product was still in its early stages. But today it operates very well. The combination of these two factors directly drives ordinary TikTok users onto the chain, bypassing centralized exchanges.
Imran: So this might actually be one of the key reasons why this cycle feels different. Altcoins, the altcoins listed on exchanges, haven't really gone up because of the current timeline.
Imran: Because now the situation is exactly the opposite; ordinary users are entering, and they are going directly on-chain, entering earlier than ever. Then there are AI agents slowly trying to take over the KOL trend. This will be very interesting.
Qiao: Don't you think Moonshot and Pump are a huge threat to Binance?
One key reason for Binance's success is that in the early stages of 2017 and 2018, they chose the right tokens to list, helping users achieve wealth growth. That's also why they are particularly cautious about token selection this year. You will find that they understand that to ensure Binance's success, users must gain profits. This is the same rule for all crypto protocols and exchanges.
So everything revolves around token listings. And now, Moonshot and Phantom are basically ahead, doing the same thing. You could say it's a game about listings.
How to Bring New Users into the Crypto Space
Imran: Interestingly, I spent a few hours on a Pumpfun live stream yesterday, which I mentioned to you before. I was watching one of the live streams, and the host was a girl who was chatting with the audience. She said, "I don't know much about cryptocurrency; I just want to see if I can make my token go up." Obviously, she was a good-looking girl, possibly a seasoned actress or performer. The audience was messaging her, asking her to do this and that, and she was responding to everyone's requests.
One interesting observation I got from that particular live stream is that there are many new users using this product who have no connection to cryptocurrency. I think this is a game changer. So I do believe that live streaming and products like this can effectively bring new users into the crypto space.
I Don't Even Know How to Handle the Rest of This Cycle
Qiao: I don't even know how to handle the rest of this cycle. This is a very complex cycle with many changing factors and different trends. I feel this cycle is much more complicated than the last one. In the last cycle, you know that after Bitcoin reached its all-time high, all the altcoins would rise, along with a non-active trend. This cycle is completely different and very complex. In this cycle, you also see Bitcoin's national-level acceptance in countries like Brazil, for example, this morning in Brazil.
Brazil Plans to Establish a National Bitcoin Reserve
Qiao: Brazil announced their bill to establish a national Bitcoin reserve. This is significant news. And for me, it's no longer surprising; every country is trying to establish its national reserve ahead of the U.S. Obviously, democratic countries need to go through legislation, but authoritarian countries may be secretly buying Bitcoin, quietly accumulating it. I think Bitcoin is not a super cycle but is disturbed by off-chain factors, with new trends emerging every week.
Imran: I think this has been going on for a while. Unless it's because liquidity-rich individuals are buying Bitcoin and showcasing decentralized finance (DeFi) and why there will be a DeFi revival. I really like people in the DeFi space, but ultimately, where will the ordinary market go? I think the ordinary market has basically caught up with the trends, although it may still be a few steps behind.
The Clash Between the Crypto Twitter Community and TikTok
Qiao: I think Crypto Twitter is being impacted by the trends of TikTok.
I feel there are basically two almost non-intersecting worlds now. One is TikTok users, the other is ordinary crypto natives, along with crypto professionals stuck in altcoins and national-level participants. This is a completely different game. There are currently about four games going on.
Imran: So there are about four parts operating, depending on which game you want to participate in. However, let me set this aside and tell you that after talking to many ordinary users over the past few weeks, I found that they are still playing games like XRP, and for some reason, they still hold on, so I think they are very familiar with these tokens, and the persistence and familiarity of these tokens create their own brand. People feel comfortable trading these tokens.
So I think these tokens have a certain persistence. I think this will hurt many crypto natives, as I mentioned before. I originally wanted to talk to you about other things, but I can't remember.
CryptoPunks Slight Price Increase
Qiao: I see that the price of CryptoPunks has slightly increased. I think at the end of the cycle, NFTs might start to rise because they have the lowest liquidity and are more like luxury goods. It's like luxury art you buy after becoming wealthy.
Imran: So would this be a good top indicator?
Qiao: This could be one of several top signals.
Imran: Some celebrities are launching their tokens, Haley Welch. I think this is a top signal.
Qiao: Alternative or energy budget alternatives, that's fine. As for these celebrity tokens, I no longer see them as top signals in the cycle. Yes, in the last cycle, celebrity tokens were indeed top signals. But this cycle will be different.
"This is the Last Cycle for Bitcoin"
Imran: Now is the stage of competition among countries. I am increasingly coming to the belief that this is the last cycle for us to create generational wealth.
Qiao: I think this is the last Bitcoin cycle because countries are now racing to seize the front line. But I also think traders should constantly pay attention to new trends.
Imran: What I mean by the last cycle is that I don't think Bitcoin will be as volatile as before. Clearly, after the cycle ends, Bitcoin's volatility won't be as strong as it used to be. This might just be my personal view. Over time, I think volatility may shift to other assets and new trends, which might make more sense.
The Trend of Tokenization of Everything
Imran: But ultimately, I think the role we are entering is the tokenization of everything. I believe everything can be tokenized, which will create a huge wealth effect. I think this is the period we are in.
Interestingly, I mention this because I spoke with a founder earlier today who applied for our project. He said, "Hey, Matt, I want to thank you for bringing pump to the forefront and incubating them." I asked him why, and he said, "I used to be very poor."
Because I only had $70, but I turned it into about $500,000. Now I want to do something for cryptocurrency. You know, these loyal users do exist. When I hear this, I think, oh, I feel this is a somewhat outrageous perspective, but if the whole world is to be tokenized, it will create a huge wealth effect. If every new meme must be tokenized, every asset must be tokenized. If you consider the whole world, like real estate, I don't know anything. If everything at some point will become on-chain represented fungible tokens, then there are many things that can be tokenized, which means at least half of the population will have a new wealth effect.
The Current State of Doge
Qiao: I think Doge will rise. Yes, I believe Doge will become one of the major currencies. Recently, there have been rumors about a screenshot of a button with a dollar sign on Twitter. Have you seen it?
People speculate that there will be a button with a dollar sign in future versions of Twitter, and it will allow payments within Twitter. I think this could be related to Doge.
Imran: What are their price predictions for Doge?
Qiao: If Doge really surpasses Ethereum in the next five years, I wouldn't be surprised. No one is prepared for that. I'm not predicting it, but I wouldn't be shocked.
The Ethereum Comeback Story: From Low to Recovery
Imran: What is the comeback story of Ethereum?
Qiao: The story of Ethereum is Base.
Imran: I agree. The Ethereum community has always been very decentralized across the board. This is by design, right? Considering Vitalik's idea was that we wouldn't build rollups internally but provide specifications for developers to build, compete, or win. He didn't realize all the things happening today. So we have about 150 rollups emerging. The winners seem to be gradually turning towards Base. Even today, I saw Bankless's tweet showcasing Base. Clanker, Eric, and Anthony are all showcasing Base.
From my perspective, what is happening now is that people must unify onto one chain. This makes the narrative easier to accept, and from a developer's perspective, the messaging is simpler. So I think what Solana teaches EVM developers is that you need a unified message. I believe Base is the best message.
Qiao: This is my view of the entire ecosystem. It's no longer possible to differentiate through technology. The only advantage of the new Layer 2 is distribution. So think about those Layer 2s that actually have distribution; the partnership between Base and Coinbase is one of them, and there are almost none others.
Soneium has also launched their own L2. So Soneium is actually an OP Stacking project; they might have some distribution, but it's still too early for them.
Exploration of Enterprise Blockchains
Qiao: The trend I see is that more and more large companies, like Sony and Coinbase, are launching their own chains, possibly in the form of enterprise chains. But in reality, they are permissionless and open, just using enterprises as distribution channels.
Soneium, Base, obviously Binance, and then many projects related to Telegram. Solana is the only project that has performed well without distribution. I think from this point on, all other projects need distribution.
Imran: And the only way to gain distribution is to have distribution channels.
Qiao: So you have to be an existing large company, or you need to build an excellent application with a large user base. For example, if Jupiter launches a new L1 tomorrow, they will succeed because they already have distribution channels.
Imran: So the question becomes whether you can launch your own L1 or L2 from enterprise chains and all applications built on Base or Solana to gain distribution. This will create a recursive loop, right?
Suppose Jupiter launches Layer 1 and then attracts a bunch of developers to build their products. Then that standout application will say, "I will only launch Layer 1." This is a recursive process.
Qiao: This is basically the original vision of Cosmos.
Imran: So it becomes a situation where you have distribution channels, and then you want to have infrastructure because that way you can achieve end-to-end monetization. Where will this end? It's hard to say. I feel we will also see this situation with AI agents. You have ZerePay, and then you have Eliza, which is at least open-source, providing models and code that can be built upon. Then if you go up the stack, you will have agents built on these things. I view agents as wallets and applications. Once you have customers, there are almost no limits. So if you have customers, you can ultimately go back and build your own models and keep the data to yourself instead of sharing it with others. This is the way I see it. Therefore, I think the key to the game is to have as many users as possible; that's my view. I think the difference between different models lies in fine-tuning.
And agents are about fine-tuning data and fine-tuning. If that's the case, I think everything will be disrupted again.
Blormmy
Imran: I saw a bot today called Blormmy or something like that. But anyway, it's an agent that can complete all your DeFi transactions. They just had a major update today or yesterday, yes, 18 hours ago. You can now simply input what you want to swap, and it will handle it. For example, I want to swap 100 USDC for USDT, currently on Polygon.
Qiao: What do you think? I don't know where this is going. I don't have a clear theory. It's like the Wild West.
Imran: I think we are on the frontier, which means wallets may ultimately be disrupted, and applications may also be disrupted. I feel everything is up in the air right now, and I think people don't realize how big this transformation is. There is a startup doing this, Sphere One.
They have launched on over 100 chains, but they don't have AI. I mean, they have prompts, but not like the so-called agents or what you call Kol Ticker. Oh, right, but I think they should have that to compete with Blormmy. So this field is developing very quickly, even faster than the data we are discussing.
Discussion on Bitcoin Super Cycle
Imran: Bitcoin super cycle, you mentioned a million dollars, right?
Qiao: First to $420,000, then in five years to a million.
Saylor's Bitcoin Liquidation Price Analysis
Qiao: I just hope Bitcoin doesn't drop below $58,000 in the next four years. Because that's Saylor's (CEO of MicroStrategy) liquidation price.
Imran: That's his average purchase price, so what do you think the liquidation price is?
Qiao: I think it's around $60,000. Hopefully, that won't happen.
Imran: If it really happens, it could trigger a crisis 100 times larger than the Tara collapse and the FTX incident.
Qiao: He owns 3% of the total supply of Bitcoin. That's crazy. Anyway, 3% is incredible. 3% of assets worth $3 trillion.
Imran: The best-case scenario is Bitcoin rises to $500,000, which would make Saylor the richest person in history.
Imran: Saylor will become the first trillionaire in human history.
Qiao: What can he do with that money? A lot of the money is actually on MicroStrategy's balance sheet, right?
Imran:
How they will handle that money is not about the money itself but about proving a point. Saylor may be under immense pressure.
Saylor's Psychological Trauma and Investment Story
Imran: Let's talk about Saylor's trauma; I want to know what drives him. When he speaks, I can feel his intense emotions. I can resonate with his intensity.
After the burst of the internet bubble in 2000, MicroStrategy faced a major financial scandal, and the company had to restate its earnings due to accounting irregularities. This event caused the stock price to plummet from $3,000 per share to a low of $4. Saylor lost billions of dollars in paper wealth during this incident, and MicroStrategy's valuation collapsed. The SEC fined Saylor and other executives $11 million. I don't know if this has any benefit for Bitcoin's price now; he went through all of this.
Controversies and Doubts About Ai16Z
Qiao: What do you think about the ai16z project? Is it a project worth holding? Because there are a lot of negative news.
Imran:
There will always be negative news. People have posted comparisons of it with DeFi summer on Twitter, and I 100% agree with that viewpoint. Do you remember all the negative news that happened during DeFi summer? Like Curve or Sushi Swap, and the conflicts among those wrapped holders. Ultimately, this is what happens. This is exactly the scenario unfolding before us.
So, those holding Zerebro are spreading negative news about ai16z, while ai16z holders are spreading negative news about Zerebro. This is the current situation. They are competing for the winners. However, in the end, the community unites, and the more negative publicity Zerebro gets about ai16z, the stronger they become. So I'm not taking sides here, but I know I have investments in both projects.
Who Will Become the "Bitcoin of AI Agents"?
Qiao: So, who is the biggest competitor to be the Bitcoin of AI agents?
Imran:
GOAT is the only one that can be called the Bitcoin of AI. Sorry, if you are going to categorize all the meme coins and meme coins of AI agents, I would say the first place is GOAT, with no others. Then I think ai16z and Zerebro, Fartcoin, ACT can compete for the second and third places.
Individualized AI Agents and Their Future Development
Imran: Then the latter are all individualized AI agents. I have shared about individualized AI agents, so there are Zerebro, AIXBT, GOAT, Fartcoin, Bully, ava, and then there's vvaifu, which uses Pump as a launch platform, combined with virtual currency.
The way vvaifu operates is that it now uses Eliza's framework. If you want to launch an AI agent, it uses Eliza's framework and also uses Pump to launch an agent. The token for vvaifu is Dasha, which is a platform and agent token.
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