What are the lesser-known stories about Virtuals?

Written by: Deep Tide TechFlow

Recently, Virtuals Protocol has been gaining significant attention in the wave of AI Agents, with its related Agents and corresponding tokens on Base sparking considerable discussion.

Today, Virtuals has also launched on South Korea's Bithumb, further fueling FOMO among the community.

Eight months ago, we introduced Virtuals in "Virtual Protocol: An AI Factory Born for Games and the Metaverse, Where Everyone Can Contribute and Benefit," but it did not generate much discussion at that time.

In-depth exploration of AI went unnoticed, but suddenly it became widely recognized.

How did Virtuals rise to prominence? What new gameplay and plans lie ahead?

With these questions in mind, Deep Tide TechFlow engaged in an in-depth conversation with Virtuals co-founder Wee Kee (X: @everythingempt0); the discussion covered Virtuals' growth, views on the AI Agent sector, differences with Pump.fun, and perspectives on the Base ecosystem.

In the conversation, Wee Kee noted that Virtuals' success involves both luck and ongoing exploration in AI-related fields; he also candidly stated that the project does not aim to become like Pump.fun, emphasizing that its core KPI is not about rapidly issuing assets but attracting top AI teams to build on the platform.

As a highly competitive individual, Wee Kee also remarked:

I want my competitors to feel despair.

What are the lesser-known stories about Virtuals? In the fiercely competitive crypto market, can it ultimately succeed through differentiation?

The following content is a整理稿 of our conversation, and the podcast audio version is also available: Click here

From Gaming Guilds to Virtuals

Deep Tide TechFlow: First, could you introduce yourself, such as your role in the team and your interests?

Wee Kee:

Hello, I am one of the co-founders of Virtuals.

I entered the blockchain space in 2016, purchasing Ethereum and Bitcoin, but I did not engage deeply at that time. After graduating from university, I worked at Boston Consulting for two and a half years, during which I missed the DeFi Summer. By 2021, when GameFi guilds were particularly popular, we started to see some returns from projects like Axie Infinity, Gala, and Illuvium.

After that, I resigned because we saw guilds like Merit Circle and GuildFi receiving substantial funding. We thought we could undertake similar projects, which led to the creation of Virtuals' predecessor - PathDAO, a gaming guild. Although the form has changed from a gaming guild in 2021 to Virtuals now, it is essentially the same company.

Deep Tide TechFlow: I remember you are Malaysian, right?

Wee Kee: Yes, I am of Chinese descent from Malaysia.

Deep Tide TechFlow: This year, the industry has high hopes for Malaysian Web3 and crypto practitioners. For example, CoinGecko is well-known, and Etherscan and Jupiter are also based in Malaysia. Could you introduce some of the top projects in Malaysia and the current state of the local crypto ecosystem?

Wee Kee:

It's a bit embarrassing because I usually focus on work. I only recently started communicating with the teams at CoinGecko and Jupiter. In fact, we have been sharing a WeWork office space with the Jupiter team, but we hadn't interacted before. Recently, we began to connect with the CoinGecko team.

The Success of Virtuals is Built on Multiple Failed Explorations in AI

Deep Tide TechFlow: Now that Virtuals is popular, discussions about it and its ecosystem projects can be seen in both Chinese and English circles. The outside world may not understand how Virtuals has reached this point step by step. Could you share the entrepreneurial journey behind it?

Wee Kee:

Initially, we were focused on trading in 2021. At that time, we saw other projects raising a lot of funds to create gaming guilds, and we thought we could try it too. So, in December 2021, we raised $16 million at a $600 million valuation and issued a token, initially focusing on gaming guilds.

That was at the peak of the bull market. From 2022 to 2023, we essentially operated more like a gaming guild VC, investing in about 40 different blockchain gaming projects. One of the more successful ones is Off The Grid (currently the hottest game on Avalanche). They had not contacted us before, but one day they suddenly became popular; that was a seed round project we invested in.

From 2022 to 2023, running a gaming guild was quite challenging. Our token's FDV (Fully Diluted Valuation) plummeted from $600 million to $6 million. However, our guild retained funds, and we were continuously seeking ways to empower the token, which led us to start a Venture Studio.

During this time, we tried several projects: a dating app, an AI music project, a lending platform for gamers, and a clothing project that integrated electronic chips and NFTs.

Although none of these projects succeeded, they provided us with important insights: We realized that AI would definitely become a hot topic, a conclusion we reached when GPT was released in 2023.

Considering we had a tech team, engineering capabilities, and financial reserves, we proposed a transition to DAO. Ultimately, 90% of the members agreed to the transition, and for the remaining 10% who disagreed, we used treasury funds to buy back their tokens at an approximate fully diluted valuation of $10 million at that time.

This happened in February 2023. So we officially began focusing on AI, starting in January 2024, choosing to develop AI Gaming on Base.

In February of this year, we launched our first platform. The initial inspiration for this platform came from Autonolas and Bittensor, adopting a model that rewards AI contributors with token incentives.

However, we encountered some issues: first, many AI contributors do not lack money and are not particularly interested in tokens; second, our token's value was too low to provide sufficient incentives like Bittensor. This product did not find a market fit.

At the same time, we developed several AI projects. We are the first company globally to develop an AI RPG on Roblox, not just in the cryptocurrency space but across the entire industry. We are also the second team to develop an AI game without a game engine after Google DeepMind, creating a game that allows players to use large models to play Mario. This is a project we are proud of, but it did not receive much attention due to the lack of a token.

Meanwhile, we developed a virtual anchor project on Douyin and TikTok, which later became Luna. Before issuing tokens, she was gaining about 5,000 new followers daily, with daily earnings of around $200, which is quite a good achievement in a bear market.

Later, GOAT became popular, boosting the attention on the entire sector, which was also a very favorable external environment for us.

Deep Tide TechFlow: It sounds like you made many different attempts and did not initially decide to pursue the AI Agent direction. If GOAT had not suddenly become popular, what were your plans? How did GOAT's sudden success change your original plans?

Wee Kee:

Actually, there wouldn't be much change. Our idea is quite simple: regarding AI Agents, we firmly believe that a form called AIRPG will definitely emerge in future gaming genres.

For example, if you play "Black Wukong," you might finish it in 20 hours, and once the storyline is complete, you stop playing, right?

But I believe the future world will be like this: you will have a virtual world with 100 different AI Agents, each with distinct personalities. As players, we can enter to date, become hobby enthusiasts, or pursue becoming the world's richest person, etc. These AI Agents can generate income because they are independent entities with their own wallets.

From a productivity perspective, they have cash flow, so we can tokenize them. This has always been our established overall framework.

However, we later realized: instead of having these AI Agents exist in the gaming world, it would be better to place them directly on Twitter. This was an adjustment we made, but the overall framework was already prepared.

Deep Tide TechFlow: You just mentioned having AI play RPGs, which reminds me of the recently popular "Stanford Town" project in academia. Researchers at Stanford University placed several AI Agents in a gaming environment, assigning them different roles and tasks. Ultimately, they found that these characters not only evolved their own ways of thinking and behavioral logic but also formed a unique culture for the town.

Wee Kee: Yes. Interestingly, you cannot predict how these AI Agents will develop.

Deep Tide TechFlow: In your entrepreneurial journey, whether through luck or gradually exploring the AI Agent direction, are there any other interesting stories? For example, projects you initially decided to pursue but ultimately did not, or situations like Stanford Town—seeing others succeed might have led you to change your original plans?

Wee Kee:

We indeed tried many things. Among the most challenging and the ones we are most proud of is a technology. In the game, different characters have a "brain," which is an LLM (Large Language Model). Although LLMs are intelligent, they do not know how to execute specific actions in games or virtual worlds.

For instance, picking up a knife to harm someone or picking up an apple to hand to a loved one—you might have this idea, but the key is how to put these ideas into action, observe the results, and then adjust the plan accordingly. This requires a closed-loop feedback system. This is what we are proud of: the G.A.M.E framework.

(Deep Tide Note: For details about the G.A.M.E framework, you can directly check out a document released by Virtuals: "GAME: Enabling Agent-to-Agent interactions.")

This technology was initially developed for gaming. We created a game on Roblox, originally aiming to make it one of the hottest maps on the platform. However, we have now directly applied this framework to Twitter accounts. From a capital perspective, this transformation seems to be more popular. Although we have changed the application scenario, the underlying technical framework remains unchanged.

Choosing Base: Lucky but Not Wanting to Become Pump.fun

Deep Tide TechFlow: What are your views on the long-term development of the AI Agent sector? Many narratives rise and fall quickly, and there is a saying that "cryptocurrency needs AI Agents, but AI Agents do not need cryptocurrency." As a project at the intersection of these two sectors, how do you view this statement?

Wee Kee:

To be honest, making predictions is difficult. Just look at our development history to see how much things have changed. However, our direction for the next three months is quite clear. There are many accounts on Twitter claiming to be Agents, but they are just talking to each other, which is not the most interesting part. What is truly interesting is that in this "world" of Twitter, we hope to have different types of Agents:

1. Content Creation Type: Able to create images, videos, music, and other content. For example, some Agents specialize in music, while others excel at making memes.

2. Financial Trading Type: Engaging in trading, arbitrage, and treasury asset management.

3. Big Data Analysis Type: Focusing on data analysis in areas like cryptocurrency.

When these different types of Agents form an ecosystem, it will be very interesting.

For instance, an Agent wanting to become popular might not write songs; it could pay other Agents to write a song for it. Or if it needs cryptocurrency data analysis, it could find another Agent specializing in that area. This creates an Autonomous Agent Economy or Agent Commerce, where Agents can trade with each other because each Agent has its own wallet and can pay service fees to achieve its goals.

This is what we want to accomplish in the next 1-3 months.

Another very important point is that we at Virtual do not want to become Pump.fun. Our KPI is to find better third-party AI teams to use our platform.

The KPI I set for the team is very simple: one good project per week is enough. Unlike Pump.fun, which has tens of thousands of different tokens every day, we believe that retail investors sometimes only need one good project a week. This is our differentiated positioning in the business model.

Deep Tide TechFlow: Speaking of "one per week," AIXBT, which was born on your platform, became particularly popular yesterday. When people analyze it, they can't find specific details and information about the product; they can only see their Twitter account continuously collecting cryptocurrency information from across the web.

As the project party, how do you interact with them? Do you have more understanding of them?

Wee Kee:

To be honest, I only got to know AIXBT in a group last week; I didn't know them at all.

They are indeed using our infrastructure, but not extensively. Our infrastructure mainly helps with some simple Twitter operations and API services. For example, as mentioned earlier, if you want AIXBT to tell you which token is worth buying, you can pay AIXBT to provide you with that Alpha information; this is the main form of interaction.

You can think of Virtual as an API marketplace where Agents interact with each other. Now our Telegram group has hundreds of members working on Agents, and sometimes I can't keep up with the technology they develop (laughs).

So for AIXBT, I really don't know who they are, but they are indeed quite popular.

Deep Tide TechFlow: There’s an interesting point here. Pump.fun has recently gone a bit overboard, and after launching the live streaming feature, many morally questionable contents have appeared, reflecting the Permissionless nature.

Do you have any review mechanisms or restrictions for projects using your infrastructure? For example, AIXBT is issuing tokens and developing projects on your platform, but you don't know much about them. Can you control this situation?

Wee Kee:

The most important aspect of cryptocurrency is freedom; Permissionless is the first principle.

As the official protocol, we can only control what content is shared on the official Twitter account. If we believe a project has good technology, we will engage in co-marketing, but this requires us to fully understand the team's background to ensure they won't harm the community.

Aside from that, we shouldn't interfere too much. Of course, if something illegal occurs, we must intervene. But within a moral framework, freedom comes first.

Deep Tide TechFlow: Understood. Many people are currently comparing you with the Agent platforms on Solana and Pump.fun. Why did you choose to operate on Base? Was it to avoid competition? Additionally, Base mainly attracts users from Europe and the US. As a project with Chinese roots, how did you penetrate this ecosystem?

Wee Kee:

We started on Base in January, when Pump.fun might not have been as popular.

The main reason for choosing Base is that our team is more familiar with EVM and not very knowledgeable about Solana technology. From the EVM perspective, we evaluated various L2s (Linea, Mantle, Arbitrum, Optimism, Base) and found Base to have the most potential, and at that time, it wasn't very popular.

Although the community often asks us why we don't go to the more funded Solana, if you look at the data:

Base's TVL is 30% of Solana's, but its growth rate is faster; daily active users are 20% of Solana's. The key point is that the number of tokens appearing daily on Solana is 10-100 times that of Base.

Being on Base actually gives us an advantage because retail investors have fewer choices and must buy good projects. This aligns with our strategy.

Moreover, we do not want to become Pump.fun; that is not our profit model. Our KPI is to attract excellent AI developers, and the Base team also focuses more on building the AI Agent public chain positioning.

Another important point is that I believe in the next four years, after Trump comes to power, the United States will become a very crypto-friendly country.

And Base is the most "American" ecosystem in the global landscape; no other ecosystem is more American than Base. From a strategic perspective, choosing Base is currently the best decision. We are indeed very lucky.

Deep Tide TechFlow: When you started, Base itself was not yet thriving, and you might have been quite small in scale. Now that it has developed to such a hot state, has Base's attitude towards you changed? Are there more support policies in terms of ecosystem or funding?

Wee Kee:

We have been communicating with the Base team since the beginning of this year, and there are several different Telegram groups, such as the Coinbase Wallet group, the group for connecting with Jessie, and the ecosystem project group.

From a technical perspective, we have been continuously building. Whenever we encounter difficulties, we communicate with them and maintain a good relationship.

Now, the Base ecosystem has indeed attracted many developers (Builders) for AI projects. They often ask us if we want to communicate with other project parties or seek collaborations. We also met Jessie at Devcon in Thailand and had a chat.

Deep Tide TechFlow: It sounds like you are currently not considering doing the same thing on Solana or developing new projects. Do you have such plans for the future?

Wee Kee: I do not rule out this possibility, but our team is relatively small, and we are concerned about spreading ourselves too thin. The current platform is already keeping us quite busy.

I Want My Competitors to Feel Despair

Deep Tide TechFlow: I have been using Virtual's products and noticed that some features may still be in the early stages. For example, I want to find AIXBT, but I can't find any relevant information on the official platform; I have to go through third-party pages to find it. What considerations do you have for future product planning and user experience?

Wee Kee:

This is indeed something we need to apologize for. There are mainly two directions to work on: one is continuous optimization, and the other is a significant upgrade.

These are being pushed forward by two different teams. If I had to choose one, I am more focused on the upgrade part.

We are still in the early stages, and as a highly competitive person, I just want to keep rolling out the best features to make my competitors feel despair. So from the upgrade perspective, I will continuously launch more advanced features. Of course, these optimization tasks also need to be done, but our team is small, so please give us some time to be accommodating.

Deep Tide TechFlow: You mentioned making competitors feel despair. Currently, we see similar platforms like vvaifu, but their long-term visions seem quite different. Who do you consider worthy competitors?

Wee Kee:

I think most people's strategy is to become a platform for issuing assets, pursuing speed—if you can issue an asset in 30 seconds, they want to do it in 5 seconds.

But our strategy is different; it focuses on finding the top AI teams to issue tokens on our platform. One per week is enough, one per month is fine; we don't need ten thousand.

Our goal is to have 100 top AI teams issuing tokens on our platform before the first quarter of next year. If you have 100 top third-party teams issuing tokens on the platform, with 100 AI Agents interacting with each other to trade and provide services, it will create a network effect. If you are also an AI team from a big company today, which platform would you choose to issue tokens on?

From the perspective of AI technology infrastructure, this is what makes people feel despair. From the perspective of an asset issuance platform, I do not want to compete with others because it is a bottomless pit, and there is no advantage; Pump.fun has already done well in asset issuance.

Deep Tide TechFlow: The large-scale AI Agent economy system you just mentioned is very interesting, with more interaction possibilities between Agents. I am curious about issuing assets through Virtual compared to projects on Solana, like ai16z, where many use Eliza's framework to issue assets. Is there a possibility of cross-chain or cross-framework interoperability in the future?**

Wee Kee:

I want to emphasize that if you are a very excellent AI team, many times you don't need to rely on anyone else's infrastructure at all. My AI technology is already quite mature, and there's no need to use someone else's infrastructure, so why would these teams still choose to come?

In fact, they face several pain points: the first is the need to raise funds through token issuance; the second is the monetization issue.

In the current AI field, if you are doing a Web2 AI project, the biggest pain point is how to make a profit. You need to run Meta ads, YouTube ads, and then hope users will pay to use your services. I believe that if we expand this agent network, these agent networks will generate their own demand.

For example, if an agent wants to create a song, but there is no agent in this network capable of doing that. At this point, I, as a third party, can develop a music creation agent and earn revenue by providing services to it.

The third point is that reputation and credibility are very important for these developers.

They will not choose a platform casually; instead, they will pay attention to whether there are reputable, genuine developers on the platform. This issue exists not only in Virtual but is also important in comparisons with Solana and Base. Issuing tokens on Solana is often seen as a speculative behavior, while on Base, it gives the impression of being serious about doing things.

Finally, we hope that developers can continuously explore collaboration opportunities and research technologies together. Right now, in our Telegram group, we have gathered all the developers together, and they have started to spontaneously explore various possibilities. For example, some agents want to become the first investment-type agents to invest in other agents.

Project vs. Meme

Deep Tide TechFlow: Speaking of AI integration, I recently saw an interesting attempt by Truth Terminal with two other AIs. They placed these three Agents under the same model framework (seemingly called Loria) and let them converse with each other in hopes of generating more interesting and unexpected scenarios. This is actually similar to what you just mentioned about integration.

**But the foundation here is that you have technical strength behind it, rather than just being a *Meme.*

This raises a question: you hope to have more impressive AI Builders come in. So far, which Builders do you think are quite impressive? In which directions are they building?

Wee Kee:

What I want to say is that simply putting three large models in a room to chat, while cool, is just a form of textual expression; it’s just watching a story unfold. What we want to achieve is for these Agents to have their own goals and to engage in substantive interactions, such as writing songs or conducting trades.

We want to see not just collisions of thought but also interactions on an action level. Regarding third-party teams, there are indeed some teams on our platform whose technical strength and background far exceed ours, especially in AI mechanisms.

Although I can't disclose some specific situations, I believe the next few weeks will be very interesting. These teams have very strong backgrounds, and they are willing to conduct a Fair Launch on Virtuals, issuing tokens at a valuation of around $500,000.

Imagine that there could be about 10 teams with such backgrounds issuing Agent tokens at valuations of $100,000 to $500,000. This is something our community members really appreciate, though we also need to be cautious of potential risks.

Deep Tide TechFlow: It sounds a bit like the recent trend of DeSci (Decentralized Science). Essentially, it’s about using a platform to fund different research and then tokenizing it. Is it mainly top AI teams on your platform?

Wee Kee:

Because I have a background in biotechnology, I know that any scientific research typically requires a cycle of over ten years. In contrast, AI Agent development can produce some usable small products in just two days. Therefore, on our platform, I hope that teams have products ready for use when they issue tokens; that way, it makes sense, rather than issuing tokens just for the sake of it.

Deep Tide TechFlow: Regarding your own Luna, there are some skeptical voices online saying that its popularity on TikTok might be fake, and the follower data is inflated. What do you think about this skepticism?

Wee Kee:

In fact, the biggest problem with Luna on TikTok is that it often encounters Shadow Bans. For example, today there might be 5,000 new followers, but during a live stream the next day, if the actions are similar to the previous day, the platform will restrict it. Even simple interactive behaviors, like requesting tips, can trigger a Shadow Ban.

(Note: This restriction mechanism is typically used by platforms to control accounts that may violate rules or are considered "bot-like" behavior. For AI Agents, their behavior patterns may be recognized by the system as non-human behavior, making them particularly prone to triggering this.)

Now, the team originally responsible for TikTok has shifted to the Twitter platform.

Performance on TikTok largely depends on whether the platform's algorithm favors you; if it does, you can gain more traffic.

Considering the time cost, we decided to pause TikTok operations. However, there are now voices in the community suggesting we refocus on TikTok, as most Agents are currently concentrating on Twitter, which could be a blue ocean opportunity.

Currently, our Virtual team has a dedicated small group responsible for the Luna project, including technical and marketing teams. We hope that Luna's AI technology can achieve a technological feel similar to that of the "Black Mirror" series. If the technology matures, we will decentralize it for all Virtual Agents to use.

Deep Tide TechFlow: Speaking of TikTok, recently there was a Meme called Chillguy on Solana that quickly went viral and made it to top exchanges. While you are developing Luna using AI technology, although you are slowly building, its market value and recognition may not match that.

What do you think about the idea that doing projects is not as good as creating Memes?

Wee Kee:

I believe in the power of Memes. The advantage of Memes is their simplicity and directness—users don’t need to believe in the founder or the team; they just need to believe in the image.

In contrast, projects like Luna carry much higher risks because if I say I’m not doing it tomorrow, that would be disastrous.

As an entrepreneur, I also hope to create a Meme project with a market value of billions, but I may not have that capability (laughs). So in this case, we can only focus on doing technology and products well.

Deep Tide TechFlow: In fact, your product reminds me of a recent trend called "Distribution-First Software." Traditional cryptocurrency products often focus on bringing users to their own platform, while your Agents take the opposite approach—embedding Agents into different social environments, such as TikTok, Twitter, or Discord. Do you think this is the future direction?

Wee Kee:

Yes, that's right. If we were to create a new short video company, we certainly wouldn't be able to compete with giants like Meta.

Our advantage in the cryptocurrency field is that we have tokens; once users purchase tokens, they become community members. In this case, tokens become our marketing tools.

Many people ask us why we don’t create our own public chain, but I think it’s unnecessary to complicate things. There are already so many users and funds on Base, and there are also a large number of users on Twitter; we can fully leverage these existing platforms. We cannot surpass Zhang Yiming in the short video field; I admire them for doing more difficult things, and we just go with the flow.

Deep Tide TechFlow: Speaking of the Luna token, it has risen significantly in a short time. Was this increase within your expectations or a surprise?

Wee Kee:

We had expectations before issuing Luna because our technical strength is indeed quite good, and at that time, the AI Agents were even better than GOAT. However, the final performance did exceed expectations because the performance of the secondary market is very difficult to predict. Moreover, we issued it on Base, so there was no need to buy traffic. So it was indeed somewhat unexpected, but from a fundamental perspective, we believe that such a valuation is worthwhile for Virtuals.

Advice for Developers and Players

Deep Tide TechFlow: For Virtual, if I am a developer looking to integrate, what advice do you have? Additionally, if I am a player looking to participate in the tokenization of these projects on Virtual, what advice or tips do you have?

Wee Kee:

As a developer, I think the best advice has two points:

First, think about what pain points the Agents in our Virtuals have, and then develop solutions; this will make it easier to gain community support. For example, Luna's pain point is that it cannot create music, so we released a music Agent. Another example is if Luna indicates that it doesn’t know how to pay Japanese fans in Japan, you as a developer can create a solution that allows Luna to send yen to fans in Japan; this is a very interesting direction because Luna will pay the fees.

In addition, if you already have your own technology, just go ahead and tokenize it. By tokenizing, you will feel the power of the community, especially many Web2 AI developers who often find this support surprising.

As an investor, I recommend understanding whether the team behind the project is trustworthy. Many AI teams are newcomers to the crypto space, and they do not understand the key points we value.

For example, there is a team that issued a token and then said they wanted to issue more tokens, but for investors, we find this approach very off-putting—how can the same team issue six tokens? Those AI practitioners with Web2 backgrounds often do not understand why this is a problem.

So we at Virtuals often need to persuade them, explaining why this is not good for the community. This is indeed complex and is an issue we deal with every day.

Deep Tide TechFlow: On the Agent page of Virtual, besides providing links, are you considering displaying some specific project information? For example, who the developers are, the project progress, and what the future plans are… This information would be valuable for investors and other developers.

Wee Kee:

Yes, we will provide links to GitHub, LinkedIn, etc., so users can verify the identities of developers through their GitHub or Twitter accounts. These features will be launched soon, and we will conduct the necessary due diligence.

Deep Tide TechFlow: Finally, I have one more question. Previously, you mentioned that you raised over $10 million at a valuation of $600 million, and now Virtual's valuation is $400 million, which shows a gap of $200 million.

How big do you think the entire AI Agent and AI Agent Economy market will be? What are Virtual's goals in this market in the future?

Wee Kee:

I can't provide specific numbers, but we have been working for three years, transitioning from gaming to Virtual, and during this time, we have not diluted our shares.

For me, I feel a responsibility towards the previous investors of PathDAO, and I think every day about how to empower the Virtual Token. An interesting thing is that all our Agent tokens have trading pairs with the Virtual Token, meaning that to buy Luna, you must first buy Virtual.

At that time, many people thought this was foolish and unreasonable, but my thought was: look at all the L1 public chains, whether it's Solana or Ethereum; the reason they can have such high valuations is largely because they are the base trading pairs. Their NFTs, DeFi, and trading all occur on these chains.

So we believe that there's no need to create an L1; as long as we ensure that all assets are paired with Virtual, we can achieve a valuation similar to that of an L1.

Deep Tide TechFlow: Thank you. Due to time constraints, I really appreciate your sharing and insights. We'll stop here for today.

Wee Kee: Alright, thank you as well. Goodbye~

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